Gun Talk

[Obi]

Why use an SMG that doesn't have another function other than semi-auto? At least get a burst function on that thing Nick

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Mainly because our laws are written in a way that requires you to check for effect after each round fired - We've had police officers thrown into jail firing back in self defense.

//N

How the hell are you supposed to do that when you have rounds coming down range at you??

[Nick]

You don't.

But the lawmakers didn't think of that.

//N

[Dugan]

You have to remember though Europe is a lot different to the U.S, not everyone and his dog owns a gun, so it's actually quite rare for a police man to be involved in shoot out.

[Obi]

Its the same down here in Australia.  Especially when they introduced the anti gun laws about 9 odd years ago now.  Still when the Police do have to use their weapons in anger, they don't really have to worry about being the criminals.  I don't know how you work like that mate.

[Nick]

It is very rare for Swedish police to be involved in shootings - And it is even more rare for swedish police to get shot  - I can recommend the website www.spmp.se which lists all Swedish officers who have been killed in the line of duty since 1900. 

The latest incident was in northern sweden where the swedish national task force engaged armed robbers in a five minute firefight just two weeks ago (probably the largest in swedish police history) with over 200 rounds fired with assault rifles back and forth. A police dog was killed and a bankrobber was seriously wounded by a police sniper(!).

I have myself only drawn the weapon as a deterrant, but as late as two years ago a police shot a robber in the leg here in our little town!

//N

[Ranger2011]

Well. Being in Iraq you use your weapon as a deterrant quite often. I was in three firefights and in one of them I ''fired'' two insurgents. But anyway, any weapon you point at someone is going to scare them, you just need to be sure it will ''stop'' them if the need arises. War is rough, watching friends die, being shot at. It is more psychological than anything. Why do you think i'm doing Logistics for the 82nd? LOL.

[Nick]

True.

//N

[Obi]

Well. Being in Iraq you use your weapon as a deterrant quite often. I was in three firefights and in one of them I ''fired'' two insurgents. But anyway, any weapon you point at someone is going to scare them, you just need to be sure it will ''stop'' them if the need arises. War is rough, watching friends die, being shot at. It is more psychological than anything. Why do you think i'm doing Logistics for the 82nd? LOL.

Amen to that brother.

[Quinn]

Well. Being in Iraq you use your weapon as a deterrant quite often. I was in three firefights and in one of them I ''fired'' two insurgents. But anyway, any weapon you point at someone is going to scare them, you just need to be sure it will ''stop'' them if the need arises. War is rough, watching friends die, being shot at. It is more psychological than anything. Why do you think i'm doing Logistics for the 82nd? LOL.

Amen to that brother.

Hooah.

To be bluntly honest though, the best gun is the one that gets the job done. After that, it's personal preference.

[Chris Shepard]

The M16 is an over produced piece of garbage. I don't even know why they still issue those muskets. I was with a Mobile Assault Platoon driving Hummvee's. They issued nearly everyone (except Staff NCO's, Section Leaders, and Officers) M16's. Trying to get your M16 out of an uparmored, fully stocked HMMWV is not an easy task, especially when you're in a sticky situation.

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs.

[Quinn]

The M16 is an over produced piece of garbage. I don't even know why they still issue those muskets. I was with a Mobile Assault Platoon driving Hummvee's. They issued nearly everyone (except Staff NCO's, Section Leaders, and Officers) M16's. Trying to get your M16 out of an uparmored, fully stocked HMMWV is not an easy task, especially when you're in a sticky situation.

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs.

M-16 is a good infantry rifle, but they could figure out little ways to shorten it without sacrificing the range and accuracy it already has. Like a telescoping stock?

The reason why it's crappy is because it wasn't designed for the jungle or sand (hello irony). It has way too many small moving parts, which makes it easier for something small like a bit of mud or sand to get in and clog the whole thing up.

Something like the AK has much larger things inside with space between the crucial parts, so sand and muck just kinda fall out to where they won't gum up the works.

For a humvee assault, I'd at least issue M-4s. Preferably G-36Cs, but I'm partial to H&K weapons.

[Chris Shepard]

The M16 is an over produced piece of garbage. I don't even know why they still issue those muskets. I was with a Mobile Assault Platoon driving Hummvee's. They issued nearly everyone (except Staff NCO's, Section Leaders, and Officers) M16's. Trying to get your M16 out of an uparmored, fully stocked HMMWV is not an easy task, especially when you're in a sticky situation.

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs.

M-16 is a good infantry rifle, but they could figure out little ways to shorten it without sacrificing the range and accuracy it already has. Like a telescoping stock?

The reason why it's crappy is because it wasn't designed for the jungle or sand (hello irony). It has way too many small moving parts, which makes it easier for something small like a bit of mud or sand to get in and clog the whole thing up.

Something like the AK has much larger things inside with space between the crucial parts, so sand and muck just kinda fall out to where they won't gum up the works.

For a humvee assault, I'd at least issue M-4s. Preferably G-36Cs, but I'm partial to H&K weapons.

I hear ya. Its funny, because almost all of the guys in the Motor Transport platoon were issued M4's. Yet nearly everyone in Weapons Company (who did all the humvee driving) was issued M16's. Didn't make any sense. The Motor-T guys would leave the wire, but we'd be the ones going on patrols and doing assaults.

I highly doubt the US military would ever issue anything like a G-36. The manufacturer's of the M-16 have the government under their thumb.

[Quinn]

Actually, the military is shopping around for a new infantry rifle and a new round. They're going for a 6.5mm round, but nothing new on what gun they finally decided on. I think they scrapped it because there wasn't enough money (shock). Too bad, I really liked the H&K416. But only Delta gets to use that.

[Raider65]

The US Military is looking at the SCAR family of weapons. US Navy SeALs are already using them. I thought the XM8 weapon system was a good idea but it got dropped in Oct 2005. The USMC is looking for an IAR to replace the M249 SAW as the fire team automatic weapon ( the Squad would keep 1 SAW position), they're looking at four models right now. I believe one is an H&K variant of the 416, 2 are Colts and the other is a SCAR variant.

Which 6.5 are you talking about? They tried the 6.8 SPC but have now dropped it. The 6.5 Grendel while very accurate, would require a complete redesign of the M16/M4/SAW also the at best 3 MOA assault/battle rifle can't use it to it's potential (They did make a lightweight sniper rifle in this caliber though). 6.5 MPC, designed by a Marine, was never embraced by the US Military even though it would be the easiest to change to with only a barrel change unlike the 6.8 SPC which required both a bolt face/group and barrel change.

The M16A2's I used were all good rifles. They still had M16A1s in Boot when I was in. And the M4s didn't exsist. We had XM177E2s, which are the granddaddies to the M4s and were just M16A1s with cut down 10 - 12" barrels with funky tube flash suppressers.

Ruger is now making a M4 type rifle called SR-556 but with a piston rod gas system for reliability in sandy environments.

[Obi]

Is the new round to supplement the 5.56mm?  What about keeping with the NATO standard?  That would mean a lot of Allied Nations would have to change as well.