Gun Talk

[Raider65]

I highly doubt the US Military will change to any of these calibers (except for maybe SpecOps use of them).

With the SCAR family of weapons, they have a SCAR-L (light: 5.56 x 45 mm) and a SCAR-H (heavy: 7.62 x 51 mm). So you can pick which one is needed for the mission.

Until the LSAT tech is fully developed. They are making caseless and what they called telescoped "lipstick" ammo which uses a plastic cartridge. Right now they are using 5.56mm projectiles for the prototypes but they have stated that they can upgrade to larger projectiles in the future. They have completed a SAW type weapon. And are working on a rifle weapon as well.

[Nick]

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs

A drugged bank robber was shot 16 times with a 5,56mm in Sweden during a bankrobbery earlier this year...and lived. He even returned fire and killed a police dog.

//N

[Quinn]

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs

A drugged bank robber was shot 16 times with a 5,56mm in Sweden during a bankrobbery earlier this year...and lived. He even returned fire and killed a police dog.

//N

Then I'd have to ask what he was on. PCP?

[Jean]

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs

A drugged bank robber was shot 16 times with a 5,56mm in Sweden during a bankrobbery earlier this year...and lived. He even returned fire and killed a police dog.

//N

Poor doggie. Last year at a local high school. Some kid that really had to go to the bathroom left the classroom without permission to go. They didn't tell the students that they were doing "locker checks". His running startled the police dog and he went after the kid. The kid, equally scared fought and killed the police dog within seconds.

The cops werent to pleased about him killing the dog, the student ended up going to the bathroom in his pants, and the school board required letting students know why they are being held in their classroom from now on.

[Ranger2011]

The M16 is an over produced piece of garbage. I don't even know why they still issue those muskets. I was with a Mobile Assault Platoon driving Hummvee's. They issued nearly everyone (except Staff NCO's, Section Leaders, and Officers) M16's. Trying to get your M16 out of an uparmored, fully stocked HMMWV is not an easy task, especially when you're in a sticky situation.

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs.

Amen to that brother. But still, for the shit we do, my dad was in the 206th Transportation btw, the M4 is not all bad. Keep it clean and all that shit and it'll treat you a'ight. They always say that it jams up when you throw it in the mud. What sane effing Soldier or marine will purposefully throw and smear mud down the barrel and in the reciever of his weapon?

[Quinn]

The M16 is an over produced piece of garbage. I don't even know why they still issue those muskets. I was with a Mobile Assault Platoon driving Hummvee's. They issued nearly everyone (except Staff NCO's, Section Leaders, and Officers) M16's. Trying to get your M16 out of an uparmored, fully stocked HMMWV is not an easy task, especially when you're in a sticky situation.

Plus, the 5.56 is basically a .22 on steroids. Its tough to put people down with such a little round. Especially when they're all hopped up on drugs.

Amen to that brother. But still, for the shit we do, my dad was in the 206th Transportation btw, the M4 is not all bad. Keep it clean and all that shit and it'll treat you a'ight. They always say that it jams up when you throw it in the mud. What sane effing Soldier or marine will purposefully throw and smear mud down the barrel and in the reciever of his weapon?

When they're diving into a muddy foxhole and it gets all over the weapon. What really jams the M-16 series weapons is the gas tube, as it gets really dirty from repeated firings. Military needs to get some cleaner-burning powder, that would help a lot.

[Nick]

Then I'd have to ask what he was on. PCP?

No, I dont think so...

PCP is extremely uncommon over here. There are only two known cases with PCP in Sweden. The first is from 1978. The other is from 2006...and I was actually first officer on that scene and I almost ended up shooting that guy in the ensuing fight before I got help and we got 7 officers on him to control him.

The investigation were the robber was shot 16 times is still pending so I have no idea, but an educated guess is most likely some kind of Benzodiazepine - Flunitrazepam is a good guess there as many bankrobbers used that previously in Sweden to keep their nerves in check.

[Raider65]

Hey Nick since they have so many restrictions on you police folks. I was wondering if they restrict you on types of ammo you're allowed to use ie: FMJ, Hollow points, Soft points, Ballistic tips or whatever?.

[Nick]

Yeah we are only allowed to use Speer Gold Dot 9mm hollow points for our sidearms. The MP5 that the normal patrol officer have locked up at the station uses the Swedish M39B armour piercing 9mm ammunition or the Speer Gold Dot pending on target - Bank robbers gets the armour piercing variant. The other weapons uses full metal jacket rounds only as far as I know. (Our SWAT teams uses the H&K 56 and the National Task Force the G36K rifles as well).

This ammunition, Speer Gold Dot, is fairly new for the Swedish police and brought much controversy. Before we used a Swedish ammunition called Norma Säk. (Säk is short for Säkerhet which means Security in Swedish). The "security" was that it was a flat nose projectile that dissipated energy quickly when stricking hard surfaces as to minimize ricoschettes. The Norma Säk ammunition did however lack sufficient stopping power. 9mm is barely enough if You need to stop someone, You need to go 10mm or 11.5 mm (.45 ACP) to get more energy transfer to the target. This is especially when using non expanding bullets like the Norma Säk.

//N